Study of Spiritual Phenomena and Research Publication

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uUtP9bzTcE

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[Music] pure experiences

welcome to the pure experiences podcast [Music]

welcome to pure experiences today we are going to venture into something which is

of more practical and worldly major although not totally because it is

connected to the study of spiritual phenomena which is totally made-up world

it means really nothing but why I am using that word is it will become clear

as we proceed so I was listening to some interview on YouTube with somebody who

was keenly interested in scientific study of the so-called spiritual

phenomena or non material phenomena mental phenomena or paranormal phenomena

there are so many names but I guess everybody knows when I say those names it is the stuff that nobody believes in

it is not even religion it is considered to crazy

- crackpot ish to even talk about in a community of where intelligent and

rational people so when you try to approach this thing from a scientific

point of view which is very well-established method of enquiry or in

the physical realm most odd things happen this is a marriage made in hell

scientific method which is tailored for physical exploration when combined with

the spiritual experiences which are entirely subjective have nothing to do

mostly from an ordinary point of view with physical phenomena then the

scientific exploration of spiritual phenomena sounds almost like an awk

so this will be the topic for today I have seen this happen and I was

actually interested in this kind of investigation for many years I have

given up but finally I saw the pitfalls of it that its disadvantages is the over

way advantages and shift to purely subjective exploration instead of

scientific objective exploration science is everything about objects nothing

about subject so I have both feet in both the boards if you want to call it I

have gathered some experience from both points of view and therefore I'm able to

offer a little bit of guidance opinion and advice this should not be taken as

something true or like written in stone no it is just an opinion that is arising

out of my own experiences when I say these things most of you must be shaking

their heads no neuroscience is not about objective there is no such thing as objective and

neuroscience can be used very nicely to study the subjective phenomena and many

of you will laugh because you know very well there are very smart people

scientist of very high caliber that are already investigating the so called

spiritual phenomena non-physical phenomena and many of you will say that

science is actually spirituality the physical part is a tiny subset of

probably 10% of spirituality and there will be many more views on this topic as

you can see I've just touched it and it explodes in a big mess so yes whatever I

am going to say will be just another opinion it is already very confusing as you can see so I don't even

know where to start this is a very tangled situation we are in so let us

start by asking the question that what is the best way to study any experience

let us not even divide it into objective subjective physical non physical scientific spiritual paranormal

religious let us not do this kind of division because that would be kind of premature in visualized view what is an

experience even before you want to study it you must know what is an experience

it is all that which exists this is my definition I found it very useful

because this directly leads us to non duality because all that exists is that

which is being perceived which is about which we are conscious that is all that

exists there is no existence apart from the consciousness of existence so it

still straightforward way we arrive at non duality so experience is that's all

can be said the one thing now when I say something like this then it closes all the avenues of exploration because it is

exactly equal to the thing that I call as I sometimes so I am the experience

also and what is there to study now as soon as we step one step into the

ignorance we can divide what is into two which is not true but a valid way to

study otherwise you won't be able to study anything there's nothing to study in order for there to be anything there

must be a separation between the one who studies and the one who experiences and

experience itself there is no such thing so we will need to abandon the truth if

there is even a tiny bit of desire of studying something otherwise this

discussion is of no value it is totally meaningless that's why I said it field is on more on

the practical side well as a practical it's always involves ignorance it is

always untruth so in the sea of ignorance we can take just one step for

the time being and divide it into the experience and experience err now there

are two so how to study an experience very obvious have that experience let

the experience her taste the experience that is the best way to study it as soon

as there is an experience the mind will start operating on it the mine is

computer to start analyzing it will start classifying it will start finding

relations among the various experiences it will start naming it will start forming models and metaphors for it

it wants to describe the experience so we need three things here as you must

have noticed the experience and experience are itself a hand the mind

without mind there is just pure experience there is nothing nothing to

study nothing to analyze nothing to not classify cannot make any models so we

are two steps into the ignorance now with the arrival of the mind which is

itself an experience this is the funny thing but let us for now assume that it

is an entity in itself so in the second step of ignorance we can say that the

best way to study the experience is to employ our minds to study it and now

probably probably many people would start agreeing here before this I don't

think anybody will even understand what I said very few handful of people are going to appreciate what I said but now as soon

as I bring the mind into the equation many people are going to say yes yes

that is the best registry how else are you going to study anything you need to use your mind and fortunately or

unfortunately it is very paradoxical and funny thing but the mind is all that we have in

order to study anything this should be seen this should be condemned plated the

mind is all that we have this is the only tool of studying any experience so

since I am coming from the non-dual background this is how I arrived the

answers to this very simple question which is not so simple is how to study

any experience you need to go down two steps into the ignorant in order to arrive at the answer now we can take a

third step into the ignorant and divide the experience this time yes we have the

mind on this side which can be called the receiver of the experience it forget

that it is an experience itself because it becomes very confusing so another approximation here you can

say that there are two kinds of experiences the first is the objective experience and the second is the

subjective experience anything on which more than one person can agree he is

objective more people agree because more objective is about objects if it is

being experienced by only one person it is subjective and another funny thing here is that everything that is being

experienced is subjective there are no objective experiences so that which is

being experienced by two is actually a mutual agreement the consensus so that's

why now you can appreciate why I said that it is only an approximation so for

the practical purposes it is a very useful approximation I'm not saying that whenever somebody says that oh these

needs to be studied objectively then I'm not saying that we should simply laugh at that statement it is hilarious yes

but it is very useful useful for studying purposes only not to be taken a

struct truth is as I said there are no object to experiences at all so you must

have seen the object two experiences are very well arranged they change very relatively

slowly and even if they change very fast we can handle them and the best way to

study the object effects experiences is by experiments the word experiment has a

very close resemblance to the word experience so there is once the

experiment is done you can have a description of the experiment you can

form relations among them things that change in that extra experiment and that

is the theoretical side of the experiment a theory is only a description the made-up created

description of the experiment the experiment is totally based on the experience the experience is being

analyzed using the mind using the intellect intelligence logical and

rational abilities of the mind so many of you must be thinking oh this is looks like science no we are not yet in the

domain of science here not really not in the domain of physical sciences at least

we can easily have a subjective experiment nobody is stopping you from

having a subjective experience and so you can experiment on that also and

nobody can stop you from forming a theory of the subjective experience now

can you see not science not so fast now you may want to divide it even more

probably we can stop counting the steps into ignorance that we are taking it's highly confusing but you get the drift

there but we are turning more and more away from the reality the truth so that

our study becomes more and more concrete so we can again divide this kind of

experimentation into two kinds the experiments that we do on the objective things that

obey rules laws they're very well bound

organized and therefore their relations can be explained using mathematics or

very precise language mathematics is nothing but a language it's only that

it's very very precise that's all and we can use instruments because the senses

are not so reliable now in order to study the object of things the things in

the world out there so we need more precision if we need more precision then

we need to employ instruments and although the instruments themselves do

not study anything we need the mind you see it is all founded there you can you

can now see that how the foundation has been built up and we need a very precise

language to describe the experiment and we need a method to find out what

experiments are valid what observations are valid and what theories are valid

and the best method that great minds

great scientists wise people will have come up with is the method of

falsification repeatability and correspondence of theories with the

experiment and here we arrive at the modern science still based on the same

foundation so you must have noticed the language is very precise here I did not say evidence

I did not say truth I did not say anything else I said falsification now it is very odd

why falsification what is the fun in proving something false how useful it is but that is the

most effective method that's why it is called scientific method science means

to see comes from the same word seeing is you're studying experiencing it means

to know so what is the best way to know scientific method has its own criteria

of knowledge acquisition so when you observe something when you have

phenomena in front of you then you can suggest an explanation you can make up

cook up an explanation of it and that is the hypothesis so and the condition for

the hypothesis to be valid is very simple that it must be falsifiable somebody must be able to prove it false

otherwise you cannot proceed with that hypothesis it can never become a theory

the theory is that which is supported by experiment so if I cannot if I am NOT

able to falsify a hypothesis it is not a scientific hypothesis for example I say

there is golden dragon in my backyard now obviously somebody is going to ask

where is it what what experiments prove it and I say no you cannot do any

experiment because you cannot see it and they will say then what how do you

describe it and I put forward the description that it has hans and it has

it is the golden color then it flies around and it has this kind of makes this kind of sound and so on but you see

these things cannot be proven wrong and these things my hypothesis cannot be

proven right probably there is a dragon who knows but it is not in the domain of

science now cannot be falsified cannot do any experiment all theories are just

worthless because no experiments can be done to prove their validity fortunately

this method the scientific method falsification repeatability and the

application of mathematics is super efficient for study of the world the

study of the physical phenomena and I don't need to tell this to anybody it has enjoyed

very tremendous amount of success in the physical domain it is very robust and

the whole scientific institution and academics has been founded on these very

simple principles under this very simple scientific method so let us see what

happens when you apply the scientific method to the other phenomena there are

their experiences which will left somewhere while they'll be discussed these things and as I said you can

always conduct an experiment on any experience you can always formulate a

theory hypothesis about anything that you wish there is no rule at all but if

it is not falsifiable if it is not repeatable if it is not following any

tight laws rules cannot be described by

the equations no models can be made of it nobody else can see it then forget

about the scientific method here it will be a spiritual method oh you can say now

because in the spiritual domain there is nothing to study it you can call it it

will be non physical method it will you can give it a name of mental methods of

study now we have two kinds of Sciences immediately you can see the physical

method and the mental method the experiences about which and no consensus

can be obtained you will need a different method than the objective

Sciences where it is easy easy peasy to get an agreement to get consensus now

because mother nature you know she is very very funny she is she likes to play

tricks and so she has not given us any sharp boundary between these two kinds

of phenomena it is really amusing and many people can see why because there is

no boundary really we have made this distinction officially it is just imagine boundary

so we cannot blame mother nature oh you did not divide everything in black and white I'm very very confused which

phenomena forms in which category it is because the confusion has been created by you not by mother nature she does not

divide there are no sharp boundaries anywhere this mu always smooth transition even when you see a sharp

transition it is because you are not sumed in enough bear you see it from a

distance and looks like partition you go closer when you will see thousands and

thousands of phenomena that lie on the borderline we all know what we do with such phenomena we simply ignore them

isn't it we do not really study them so in order for an object of study but

phenomena must clearly lie in the objective domain if it is in in the middle somewhere then physical scientist

physicist is going to lose interest because it is very frustrating it must

be your own experience it is my experience actually as I said like I stand in both boards and they take you

nowhere stating experience so the division of which science which method to employ to

study what is totally arbitrary when I say this I stop many many fights I stop

all the violence and confusion that goes on in the name of scientific study

totally arbitrary matter of convenience those who are still confused

probably they never ask this question or is the best way to study any phenomena what is the best way to study any

experience they never ask this question and probably even if they ask the read the answer somewhere here and there but

this great person he said this is the best this has to be best kind of brainwashing in logically rational

attitude it never came from their own understanding never came from their own direct

experience and knowledge so when we start from the Foundation which is the

existence and the nature of existence itself we see that all these methods they are arbitrary they are subjective

there are no objective things there are approximations there are models there

are they'll they are theories they're based on things called instruments they're based on things called concepts

words languages numbers you can see how far away from truth all these things are

we have left the truth long long ago is there any meaning in saying which is the

best way a fortunately there is it's not totally useless just like I said if it

is useful for you to study something in a specific way then go ahead and use it

because it is arbitrary should not stop you from studying it look how arbitrary

the physical sciences are and look how marvelous the progress is because very

useful very easy to solve the problems of survival because survival is all

about physical existence physical comfort growth and reproduction so the

physical model is the physical method the so-called objective method works

very well indeed in the physical domain look how miserably it has failed in the

study of mind in the study of spiritual experiences so much so that some people

fascinated by the success of their physical sciences have totally dismissed

this part which is the 90% of experience actually it is 100 percent but let us

remain in the domain of the ignorance for now just like I said the physical

world is only 10% of our experience but it shines so brightly this is so

successful people think this is the only method this is the only way it gives success so

employ it everywhere because if all you have is a hammer everything is going to

look like a nail so yes very useful but arbitrary fails very badly when you try

to apply to all experiences so many people you must have this question in

their mind okay then what is the best way to study the mental phenomena or the

spiritual phenomena non-physical and it is unfortunate it is unfortunate but

this question exists in the modern world because this was never a problem in the

ancient world so this very elaborate very detailed and very rational methods

of study of mental phenomena we're employed in the ancient times so

actually it shows two pictures to us one

where the humans wear kind of primitive lowly animals and they because of the

science the objective methods the progress then almost became gods this is

the one picture there is another picture on the reverse side of the page which

shows that we were highly adapt in the mental sciences

and we have fallen to a level of animal probably below that when it comes to

this kind of experience this kind of study it is funny as well as sad this

has happened I don't know why but it looks like some kind of cycle isn't it

so whenever there is threat to survival the methods of study that promote

survival that supports survival they gain favour and when the survival is taken care of when there is no need to

worry about being alive so much then the mental sides

mental methods meant science starts blooming now you can see

the full picture now you can see why there is a advancement as well as a

degradation in this points to a very complex history of this world

in this human history which is not being taught in the schools

nobody is familiar with this this in-depth multi-dimensional history all

they know in the name of history is you know who killed whom and who ruled over

how big area whatever how many wars were waged at how many great killers happened

we need to learn their names we need to buy hide their data Birds and the

regions of their conquest and so on only then we get the passing marks only then

we get the job so great amount of distortion great amount of lies

propaganda when you say history nobody knows it nobody wants to know it somehow

it brings out their animal side they don't like it so everybody wants to

assume these things but yes people were primitive let's ignore all the evidence

now they are civilized cultured and that

too only in a few part of the world where there is a lot of gold so this is

our criteria now it is but you can see how ridiculous and the situation is

because they do they do not see the full picture they do not try to see what is

behind that picture that is being promoted for whatever reasons probably

there is benefit in that kind of propaganda probably there is their survival advantage there so people was

wondering what kind of science it was why it was lost and let us not dwell

into that topic so much this is a totally different topic and I have already discussed some things about it

and the good news is that you can grow your own method it is not really

necessary to dig out the old methods it is not totally useless because you know

the wealth of information and knowledge there but you can start from the blank

slate you can create your own methods of studying and the criteria is always

always as before usefulness how useful is that that method it is not going to

be truth it's not going to be accurate because as I said there's nothing to study really but if there is a desire if

there is interest to study you must take some steps into the ignorance arrive at some kind of approximation and then you

can find out the method to describe to explain and to use the knowledge gained

from the study of any experience any phenomena so this is happening and the

objective side for example and the application of the knowledge study is technology and we can do something

similar on the mental side and applications of that knowledge and that

study that information will become the technology of the mind about which I

produce the series of talks not very long ago you'll find them in the podcast

so it is very natural that whenever we study something the knowledge is a accumulates and then the human nature is

to employ it somehow for something if not for the survival probably for

happiness for the well-being to escalate forward on the path of evolution on the

spiritual evolution to make the mind stronger bigger and sharper and more

able more capable I had more abilities into the mind as I said mind is the only

tool that you have you can employ directly in the spiritual studies in that mental studies non-physical studies

you can create mental instruments in order in order to study the mental

you can create mental technology in order to augment the mind in order to

push it faster on the highway of evolution so on and so forth the natural

consequence of study and that's why I said although it is not true it is useful you use mind as a tool experience

evaluate the experience describe it using a precise language precise

language of the mind you will need to invent a terminology if you if you don't

have it in your culture or your language you will need to associate new terms

with your experiences you will need to form a new theories new explanations and

you will need to have some kind of criteria so that it remains free from

the mumbo-jumbo it remains free from the impurities of the ignorant so I know of

a few criteria that is then that it experience it it must correlate to the direct experience somehow it has nothing

to do with objectivity even if nobody agrees with your description you should

be able to agree there there must be the description must be self-consistent you

can also use some additional criteria like repeatability oh yes The Dream's exists because

repeats repeats every night that is there is a phenomena there which is

worth studying and that is my direct experience I cannot say no they did not happen they

do not exist I cannot say like this with this kind of foundation which is very basic

now just to start you can start the study of phenomena of dreams and as many

people know that is not the only phenomena but just am taking just one example now imagine doing this from the

objective point of view you want to study the dream many people have tried and failed miserably you will need an

objective experience you will need to show it to other scientists look this happened in my dream and there itself it

falls flat on its face it is not falsifiable anymore nobody can see your dream ok which instrument should I put

to study the dream whether it was in color whether it was in black and white whether how much time passed in the

dream and no you cannot bring your instruments into the dream I'm giving

you a very small example but let us try to study the Kundalini for example from

an objective point of view so I'm getting this sensation that sense it is not falsifiable oh the temperature

increase this blood blood pressure became like this the temperature is so

hot that skin is burning but thermometers say is 35 degrees nothing

unusual is being measured on the instruments now what is this phenomena now yes you will say oh there is a

physical manifestation now the body is not physical you see do not try to study the body like a physical object it is a

layer of the mind that is in between the physical and the mental just like I said mother nature does not distinguish

between such things it bear totally arbitrary now the body has physical aspects like

infections happen in the body and bones break and the heart defects are there

and so on hormonal problems are there so they can the scientific method is very

very useful in treating those things as soon as you go into the this side of

spectrum the higher side of spectrum where the rules change the body becomes

more and more mental the science starts failing and by science I mean the

objective science the physics starts failing the physical turns into physiological and physiological turns

into psychological and the psychological turns into paranormal metaphysical whatever you want to call it there is a

spectrum here the problem is because of the short sight isn't sightedness or

ignorance of people they do not zoom in close they do not see this spectrum

that's why I take the hammer beat it up this kind of treatment is given to the

body not only to the body to the mind also they try to put all kinds of instruments and that were very very successful in

measuring let us say fall of a rock or flow of the electricity in a lightbulb

and so on very very useful very successful but is like hammer in kind of

an ignorant person everything is not nails so it will fail very badly the results will be hilarious

ridiculous spiritual person laughs at these kind of attempts and a physicist

is bewildered what is happening it is not written anywhere in my textbook no

mathematical formula seems to work here the empirical scientist is puzzled by

instruments well this starts behaving very very in a very odd way in such

situation what is it so the knee-jerk reaction is especially if that person is

on a high enough position is a priest of scientists scientific religion then he

will simply dismiss this no our method they do not apply here he is not going

to say that he is going to say that these things do not exist there Falls made up nothing is happening to the

person and the Kundalini practice nothing is really happening in your dreams there is no such thing as astral

projection there is no such thing as paranormal phenomena manifestations or anything no bilocation telecon is

anything why because blinded by the hammer cannot see the nails it's not

does not exist for that person such people if they are authority figure will misuse their position in the authority

to misguide ordinary people ordinary ignorant laymen who are standing there

in front of that high priest hands folded sir tell me what is true because

the intelligence is so low that they need to be told what is true cannot find anything so we are seekers we are not

really influenced by such things so we should not dwell here too much you see I

am talking from the point of view of a seeker from the point of view of a layman kind of a disaster it is a very

miserable situation so let's not go there and they are being manipulated from both sides actually blind faith is

their their only instrument blind faith is their only tool so whoever happens to

influence their blind faith it's becomes the right becomes the truth holder so some people worship physics

some people worship the religious priests nobody worships the spiritual

Explorer you must have seen hardly anybody understands what I am talking

about so it is beyond the radar actually so whatever I am talking about is within

the range of hike or spiritual seeker and they must be you know be able to see

now what I'm talking about the whole problem is mixing the methods which are

arbitrary mind created human creations to study phenomena which for which they

were not developed when you launch rocket with your mind impossible isn't it but but can you study your extra

physical experiences in other worlds using TV camera impossible there are

phenomena in between where you see you can yes I can use my mind to move tiny

needles or something yes okay do it enjoy the fall in between you see and

the borderline of this imaginary distinction between object your subjective so yes once in a while you

will get a placebo effect look I just imagine cured the disease magic once in a while you will get a

picture of a ghost somewhere will never repeat but you see these are just

coincidences you are very lucky to have this it is not systematic it is not

scientific you did not use the proper means proper tools you do not have any

falsifiable hypothesis you do not have any theories you do not have any conjecture

no precise language there no models no understanding of how that thing works hitting in the dark so in a nation time

some models the highly successful tools were developed to study the spiritual

phenomena and almost ruined now but you can dig them up or you can invent your

own because usually for a seeker for an explorer survival is not a problem in

this age all the seekers are very well established from the physical point of

view they know the value of Sciences we use all the technology that is available the only thing is we need to use the

right tools to study the right experiences see where they fall in a

spectrum of experiences from the objective to subjective and create a theory a method a tool an instrument to

deal with that experience then you will be able to study it then then you will be able to find a meaningful description

of it and then you will use that knowledge as

a technology as a method to enhance whatever the experience is depending on

our desires the world happens if you try to mix the techniques of study when they

are not really applicable in that field of experience I find that a lot of

confusion happens a lot of misunderstanding happens corals happen and hate and mud slinging happens no

light just heat so the interview I was talking about was mentioning these

problems and the Explorer had an issue with the scientific publishers they said

I conducted this you know amazing XP experiment on such and such mental

phenomena spiritual phenomena which has physical manifestations and there it was repeatable it was this as

it was falsifiable it was their double blind ripple blind with control groups

and all is satisfied all the criterias and then we wrote very nice clear

interesting paper on it but most of the publishing the journals publishing

houses they rejected it they did not touch it some refused to read it and

some we're kind of fundamentalist about it dogmatic about it don't bring this in

front of my eyes and obviously it is a big discouragement for people who spend time money and a

lot of effort to conduct those experiments and we as a spiritual

explorers can sympathize with that kind of situation and that person but I have

a neutral point of view here yes there are people who will never look at your

experiment if it is it belongs to the non-physical kind of experiences yes

there are people who hate such experimenter sects such explorers yes there are very dogmatic people

closed-minded people also because science and Humanities they do not

should not be mixed a scientist is not by default a good person just because he

knows a few things written in the textbook does not make him st. for

example similarly for a spiritual person person who's studying mind and a

spiritual phenomena does not automatically become kind and gentle no

they also become dogmatic they are also violent they also hate others so I have

a really neutral point of view and and the mistake that happened was that you tried to publish your paper in a

field of experiences in a field of knowledge where it does not belong that

journal that publishing house is meant for publishing only the topics related

to the physical world whatever has been reviewed by the peer-review process by

physicists most probably are by largest SAR is in the field and obviously first

thing they are not going to find useful second thing it actually threatens their

models and they have worked all their life to come up with very amazing

theories models and your paper is going to you know totally flush them down the

drain very very afraid they're afraid there are more reasons for example

mostly the publishing houses the journals they are profit oriented nowadays they are not publishing it for

the service to the humanity probably that is a side effect but the main

motivation is more and more people should subscribe to that journal should

pay them it is a profit oriented activity so more subscribers means more

profit and there will be more subscribers if the material that is being published is useful for them

belongs to their field of study if you start putting off-topic things in their

journal the sales will go down and more thing it's not only money always you see

the reputation will also go down of that journal scientific journal so they are

obviously concerned about these things and will not allow your paper to get

into there from this side it is really frustrating it is sad you will think

that well these scientists we are just like any other Orthodox religion they

don't want it to be destroyed they don't want introduction of new ideas there and they're opposing in the

truths that you found out they are not really saying this they do not want to see you do not want to know

so you see listen this is an extreme view which I can understand this I'm

misunderstanding can happen when this is the case it actually happened to me a few times that whenever I tried to

introduce a spiritual topic or some phenomena related to mind in a community

where only the materialistic or physical

matters were being discussed I got very bad reaction I got insults I got name-calling and

people actually rush to prove me a stupid lunatic so this is - take

actually because it is like serving meat to a pure vegetarian person I'm going to

reject it you are serving vegetables to somebody who likes to eat animals only

there can be many more reasons that your research is not getting that kind of

respect and approval from any other fields that is because of the bias in

those communities because especially in the western part of the world European

continent the fundamentalist religions they became very powerful in the Dark

Ages and anybody who tried to say something which means publish something

which was there which could could threaten their monopoly over control

over people was punished very brutally very badly we don't know how many people

were killed and we we know some famous stories of by treatment that scientists

received and it was not only scientists not only those who studied the physical

phenomena those in the field of men Sciences were also very badly treated by

the religious authorities who from one side spoke about love and love your

neighbor and be good and kind the same people acted like cruel dictators to

preserve their status Co control over the masses by punishing anybody who

tried to advance the knowledge because control over the masses best kept when

you keep the masses ignorant and stupid this is what the religion is all about control of people by not letting them

grow not not letting them man become smart intelligent and stopping their

critical processes in their mind blind faith total surrender to the authority

this happened in the western part of the world and middle-eastern also that the

sciences were destroyed discouraged scientists were punished the mental

sciences were branded as sorcery and witchcraft they were also equally brutally punished

so such people they developed the hate for anything that is not scientific

anything which looks like star like religion and from the point of view of

physicist or scientist who is trained in critical thinking abilities anything

which you know is subjective it does not conform to his criteria of

being objective and to measured by instruments and being mathematically perfect and all is seen as bothering

religion and immediately they are repulsed by it so this has happened in

specific part of the world you know why and how so I'm not going to go into that

history but that can be one social reason that anything which is not

material not physical is now being rejected like throwing the baby with the

bathwater and and again the spiritual kind they're sometimes found against

scientific thinking and they are obviously against the religious organisations there so a spiritual

seeker hates both of them which is not really hate but avoidance because we can

see what they are after fortunately did not happen in the East as far as I know

probably I'm wrong but who knows can only say that which I see there are no religions in the East there is only

science there is only study there is only seeking exploring this division

never happened he has some kind of authoritative people

dictator kind of people they rose in power in the ancient time and they try

to impose their own stuff on people but it was always very very open here no

violence happened in the name of religion here it is not the case now after the invasion of Indian

subcontinent by middle eastern and the Western attackers this culture also got

destroyed and you can see the same kind of fundamentalism arising here some

people are now science hater here it is amazing that you can find this thing in

India also that they are totally into blind belief and some scientists

so-called scientists they hate all kind of freely these people and spiritual people so this division has is very very

recent this probably 100 or 150 years I do not see any such instances beyond

that funny thing is the great scientists they look like spiritual seekers they

sound like spiritual seekers when a great scientist speaks you cannot

distinguish the speech of their scientists from the speech of a guru east or west does not matter it's only

the small mindedness the fundamentalist type the knee-jerk type of people they they are

involved in the hating business that's what I see even there are some religious

scholars great priests they do not hate anybody they do not want to punish

anybody for saying anything against their blind faith but where most of it

is you know totally corrupt now so in

India fortunately this is not the case and I hope in China and other Eastern

countries also it is not that bad because science was all always

considered as a spiritual practice in India that was the only tradition their spirituality was the only knowledge here

the physical sciences they were subset mathematics were subset of whatever the

great domains of knowledge were here and it was totally inclusive there was no

exclusive field of knowledge you need to understand everything in order to say

something about your subject this is rare in the West actually a person is

considered great if he is an expert in a narrow field if he talks like a village

idiot in other fields well nobody bothers about it nobody points finger at

it because he is great already so whatever he's saying must be true this is not the case when you are a spiritual

Explorer it is holistic it should be consistent with everybody

else otherwise it is of no value so it is not so surprising in India that you go to a

college Engineering College let us see and you find a statue of Saraswathi

where you go to you open a textbook on physics and you find the way the cloaks

written there actually something funny happen that one day I shared video on

Twitter which was about kind of physics the basics of quantum physics and the

problem of measurement probably in particles and it was by a very

well-respected professor from IIT and one of the IITs and I did not tweet that

video for bit just because it had you know good information on the contem physics subject but because it started

with verses from some it can be surprising thing for a westerner but how

is it possible how is it possible this so-called religious thing is being

recited before the lecture starts on kind of physics it is because there is

no distinction here between science and spirituality in India one thing I heard

that I don't know whether it is true or not but outside the campus of Large

Hadron Collider in this was the land there is a statue of Natraj or the Shiva

statue not any other statue from any other part of the world statue of Shiva

why is it it is not it is not uncommon to find that kind of statues in

scientific institutions in India everywhere we do not really distinguish

between science and spiritual in religion even when the country is seen as a spiritual path the black side bomb

are the left hand side has become a little bit of a little bit bad reputation because by practices there

but there is no such distinction here I still remember we were told to bow down

touch the book of any subject if we accidentally put our feet on it if

accidentally my feet touched a book my school textbook whether it is faces

physics chemistry biology or whatever I was supposed to say sorry and fold my

hands and touch that book as a gesture but I did not mean this disrespect I did

not really wanted to kick book I don't know whether this practice

is still there or not but I remember it we used to put stickers of gods and

goddesses on our physics books so that we get success in the exams it is

probably still there that people prepare

for the exams and they actually pray to their favorite guards whatever guards are there goddesses are there it's

immaterial whom they are praying to but you see I don't think this will be found in any Western country this kind of

division is absent here although there are fundamentalists there are rare bad

guys here there are blind faith kind of people also somebody once told me

somebody from foreign country that India is a spiritual country and I said that

is the case of cross generalization it is just like any other country where

some people are spiritual some are religious some are fundamentalist materialistic people some are nothing at

all some are good this some are this and exotic traditions you will never even hear the names of them what are you

talking about how can you tenantry become spiritual impossible the person

can become spiritual that I can understand even that person will have some non spiritual parts here and there

in their personality so do not think like this there are some traditions and

there are some good things that are being practiced in one country does not make the entire country good if you see

Baba if you see sad who do not automatically assume that he is the saint he's probably just like any other

person because of hundreds of years of poverty and repression the culture has

become in a specific way people have become really selfish only those who are a little bit well-established in terms

of survival they have a little bit of interest in spirituality now but the good thing is hardly any distinction

between the mental sciences or the physical sciences you can see the remains of the

culture that was in ancient time long long ago it is changing very very fast

so we learn from our experiences so it was probably a good learning experience

for that experimental bear who and got an awesome experiment running and got

awesome results it was all trashed by somebody some random person somewhere

who is in charge of publishing study it is just a case of mixing the methods of

study just the case of mixing the sciences together that does not make all

the scientists and scientific community evil there are reasons just like I gave there isn't there are good and bad

reasons the good reason is that nobody will like their field of study to be

polluted by stuff they do not want that's why we have the Wikipedia police

for example that's why there is it requires government's permission to

include something some content in the textbooks in the school's the syllabus

is government approved at least this it is here in India otherwise the degree or

the school certificate has zero value you can open up a school and teach anything you want you are most welcome

the government is not going to stop you but whatever certifications or degrees

that you hand over probably will not land any kind of job you see so it may

look like a tight control over who gets to learn what and who gets to teach what

but there are reasons the society is like this for some reason scientists

publishers are not publishing your paper there is reason so not to worry because

there are so many journals out there there are publishing exactly the kind of

research that you are doing into the non-physical areas there are why don't you publish

their while go to an area where you are not welcome why don't you Othman - your

own field of study some people visit no the field of study is exotic be better

there are no standard no well-reputed publishing houses there and again it is

not anybody's mistake because these Sciences the science of the mind the

science of this spirit is totally ruined is totally destroyed as you can see and

therefore it is not a surprise there is

nothing that established here sometimes you will find this circle this journal

of parapsychology and nobody you know takes them seriously and you think none

of my amazing study does not belong to that crackpot journal there but it has

become a crackpot journal because no strict criteria we're employed in

publication so I saw a ghost and that story gets published there so it is not really a scientific study you see the

stories so what are you going to expect it has no reputation at all it is a bad

reputation and then don't want to publish their obviously and then no but no reputed journal is going to publish

your study that is also obvious what to do and for such people laugh when

advised that why don't you publish yourself what is this dependency on

others in the age of information and Internet why do you want to depend on others in order to make yours study

public have you know veena those who know the history of science know how this all happened it was the early age

of printing press and all so obviously nobody has a printing press in their house everybody needs to bring their

articles and to a central place where it will print it out and then that magazine

will be distributed all around the world so we are called papers and these called

journals are weeklies or whatever monthlies and obviously somebody needs

to be appointed there who selects what gets into the journal so everybody got

their own feelings there and everybody appointed their own have been editors to

edit out anything which is not into their field and this is how it started

now it has become largely irrelevant because you can publish it in a book in

the form of a book you can publish it online you can set up your own website a blog you can start a podcast like it or

you can make a video of it publish it now the only thing is these publishing houses they have gained a reputation in

good reputation since there are hundreds of years old now and your single book

single paper single website not peer-reviewed nobody reads it seriously

and so on there are many many reasons these are the disadvantage of self-publishing that it does not have

that weight that force of many and if it is not an extraordinary finding then

nobody is going to take it seriously and it does not progress that nicely so

community is required but the good news is nobody is stopping you from starting

a community you can start a community you can become an editor there you can set up the criteria that I am going to

allow these and this kind of research into the community publishing on my office the website or some anywhere so

if there is an interest in making a research public which for some reasons I

find it odd why would you do that because subjective science you see even if it is paying goes into the public

domain everybody needs to get their own experience in order to validate it so I

mean it is a totally different thing now it does not become true like in the case

of objective Sciences when it is published in a journal peer reviewed and

you know mathematics is there to support and here here's the chart here is the graph these are reading this these are the

instruments shoes now still somebody needs to reproduce it in order to validate it but because it is published

we simply assume that oh it is true because you see they have taken proper care usually there is a lot of mess in

the published area also because 99% papers and they are not validated after

getting published again there is no interest probably there is no advantage there if money is driving everything so

people want to research that which brings returns which brings money so if

I publish something about a new medicine which can have a desired effects they're

not curing obviously desired effects so everybody wants to read that paper

everybody wants to repeat that experiment that research because there is a potential of earning money

everybody fortunate by that journal now because yes can make me rich can make me

successful so it is psychologically when

you see not knowledge driven it's not love of the physics or biology or

medical sciences it is just ego driven profit driven it's all a mess

so I say it is good that they rejected your paper you are fortunate you were

saved from drowning into this mess that we call scientific academics

unfortunately they because this is so well-established there is no other way to publish your finding no other way to

gain reputation it won't give you PhD it won't make you a famous scientist you

won't be able to appear on TV nobody will take you seriously even if you have

the greatest hair in the world so in whatever field you are objective subjective or relative there is there

will be need for replication the experiment must be reproduced and for

the objective experiments the results are objective subject to experiments the result is subjective and

the criteria is very simple it has to be useful it should make your field progress a little bit that is what I

mean by useful somebody should be able to replicate it use it form it into some

kind of technology method technique tool equipment if it is subjective there are

equivalents in the mind so ultimately it comes down to the usefulness boils down

to the technology it is not your research is not great because somebody

published it to some arbitrary paper somewhere type at regional somewhere some random alter decided yes great

piece of art and publish it it does not become great by that does not gain any

reputation by doing that it is usefulness that is the criteria we study

things because they are useful in some way we publish things we publish the study because we hope that it will be

useful for somebody if your aim is to become great become famous on money and to sell your books and then probably

that gutter of organized science just

like organized religion we have organized science is good for you there are let me tell you there are better

ways to earn money there are better ways to become famous if all you want is that

your name should be well-known all you want that you have lots of money there are more effective ways than scientific

research for an explorer the real wealth is knowledge not fame or money the real

wealth is evolution the real fame is the respect that you get when you publish

something which is very useful for the seekers in that field why is Gotham wood so well-respected

incidentally he's also famous that's why I am giving you that example not because

he published somewhere not because some random editor decided

to no have mercy on him the poor fellow let me give him a chance not because it

was a great achievement of some kind only because he said something which is

useful he told some method which were useful for the seekers in that field he

did not tell anything new he just removed all kind of BS from the existing

teachings and presented it in a new way in the language of ordinary people and

so he became famous he is well respected he is an explorer that's all he is not

because he did some kind of magical tricks miracles of some kinds people do

not respect him for that it is just clear words that he said that's all that

is his contribution now look how much the knowledge progressed we call it the

branch of Buddhism it is a science in itself there are many there are many such scientists there are many such

explorers who are not probably not so famous and who probably did all kinds of odd things miracles and whatnot had

produced exotic theories and exotic experiments and we already know them

it's not that we don't know them but they also were not on the mercy of

organized publishing organized academics so please don't be disheartened if your

research is stashed by somebody who does not know ABCD of that it is good it has

saved you from falling into the traps of organizations publishing companies for

profit stuff continued experiments continue telling it sharing it but do

not expect anything in return except more knowledge if you are producing something which is very useful for the

community you will be well respected that is guaranteed that is not same as

becoming famous you see Fame is not equal to respect the comedian is also famous a person who

works in the porn industry is more famous than even your president isn't it

but then is not what kind of fame is that is it of any use if you are

respected among a handful of people who belong to your field who belong to your

community this is a big achievement if your words are understood and

appreciated by let us see only two or three people who are very high in their

who have achieved a lot in the same field that is your success what are you

really expecting we are talking about science we're talking about exploration

talking about knowledge let us not mix the fame money Authority big big big degrees and you know this

titles doctors professors this that it's all bs great people never needed all these

things if you remove all the degrees in the titles from where Nikola Tesla let

us say Einstein Ramanujan let us say if these great people if you remove all

their the decorations he is their contribution worthless will it become

zero instantly because nobody publish them they are not beggars they said

something useful they did something useful the technology that came out of that knowledge study extremely useful

they do as their field forward so even if you are in the field of objective sciences you do not need to remain on

the mercy of organized institutions etc you can do your own research and publish

it whatever way you want those who have the eyes and ears will find you will

will benefit for from it the only thing you are going to get back is respect and

more knowledge it will be useful for you why am i exploring why am i studying

because I have my own selfish interests there I want to progress I want to go for I want to know I want to go forward

that is the only return I am expecting isn't it what is this drama of I want to

become a big name in this my field ok let's this is only a side effect the

main benefit is your own forget about people sometimes it is spoil and swine situation your

contribution if is very very great if it is not office this if it is not of this

age then it will not be recognized somebody will dig it out many many years

after you're already gone somebody will steal it somebody will try to take credit because currently their race and

their country is tied in killing others dominating others so all these things

happen but anyway anyhow it is going to come into daylight and then it will

benefit others it never goes waste it it is ruined yes it cycles through creative

and destructive phases because human studies as impermanent as humans what

are you going to do about that so knowledge appears and knowledge disappears the human knowledge the

technology appears and Technology disappears the whole race of creatures appears and the whole race the species

disappears can it be forever no this kind of approximations this kind of

practical utility is impermanent it is not going to stay it will be

overtaken by better models it will be superseded by better experiments better

theories more understanding more and more knowledge this is what is happening in the scientific field also objective

field also and this is what happens in the mental field also so yes there the

punished model is superseded by the seven chakra model then this check remodelers outdated already and

replaced by the Kundalini model and so on using the random practices of monks

consolidated ashtanga yoga by Patanjali and it became famous everything else was

wiped out and then that was wiped out I hurt you again something even more

exotic because people found it faster and more useful so the mental technology

or Thundra it is called Thundra here in sanskrit has its own dynamics which are

exactly similar to the physical technology the material technologic it

Awards it is replaced it is thrown out more improved models and experiments

better understanding replaces the old because this is not really knowledge

because this is not really truth it it does not last that is why some people

must be wondering how is the how come all these scientific facts they keep

changing every day the first thing because they are not facts the scientific knowledge is not to

be confused with truth they are only descriptions of experiences descriptions

of the reality so obviously they keep changing there is nothing bad in that you see the most useful will survive the

description which explains most of the things most convincing way and is most useful most logical and consistent that

overtakes everything else similar things will happen in the field of mental

sciences and it has already happened a few times at least now people have

forward in it that is another thing but we can start again I have a little bit of hint about what what happened what

what rose to the peaks then it fell so the current state of the tundra or the

technology of the mind is miserable because we are in the fallen state right now and this is not totally in bad

situation because anybody can come up in this it is a matter of time that it will

be reestablished with better and better more better and better technology better and better ways to experiment in the field

of mind you see there will be a day when the physical scientists will struggle to

publish in a mental journal and you will be the one who will reject it as mumbo-jumbo so it's a matter of time

time is cyclic do not worry we need to explore we need to find ways we need to

develop tools we need to develop technology in whatever field we are they

are all related to knowledge they are study of experiences study of this one

kind of experiences that which is appearing right now finally there is nothing to study really because what are

we studying we are studying that which we already are is there anything else to

study except myself [Music]

pure experiences

[Music]

you were listening to pure experiences by Thrun Pradhan

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