https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_UZvUgBLVo
this is by pratik
he is asking is it incorrect to say that
knowledge of maya including concepts of
vibration and memory is positive
knowledge
no it is not incorrect to say that it is
positive knowledge the knowledge of maya
is positive knowledge and therefore it
is not knowledge
as you know that
anything that can be known is false so
anything that is positively known is
false anything that is
negatively known is true so for those
who are
new to this kind of terminology or
these concepts about of the knowledge
and they will find it very puzzling so
because this is satsang i cannot give
you the whole thing but i'll give you
a little bit of short version of what do
i mean by positive negative knowledge
so
the there is there are there is
two kind of there are two kinds of
knowledge first is the positive the
second is negative positive is anything
which is gained through direct
experience
and logic that is the only way to gain
knowledge there is no other way to gain
knowledge to get any knowledge
if it is positive if it is saying that
this is so and so it is always false if
it is negative and says that i am pretty
sure that this is not so and so that is
there is some chance that that it will
be true and then you can explore more
if you can find something it will be
false if you do not find that which you
hold as a concept then it is true so
it is puzzling yeah i know it is
puzzling that
how can
how is it possible
don't i get the truth by observation no
we don't get the truth by observation
we get the knowledge of the illusion
how do we get the truth when we discard
our assumptions and beliefs that is
truth
and finally you will come to know that
nothing is true and nothing is false
some things appear and
something witnesses the appearances
that's all the rest of the story is made
in the mind it is a story okay i am
going to use a criteria that everything
that changes everything that is positive
is false yes that is a story it can have
its use it can be useful it is still not
there
okay there is some something which is
infinite which is blissful which is
perfect which is timeless that is
witnessing something it is a story
although it is not an appearance but
still concepts when you discard all
these concepts you are left with that
which is
that which is
cannot be known all knowledge is
concepts all knowledges interrelations
between experiences that are stored in
the memory what is stored in the memory
all illusion
to know the unknowable we need to
transcend the knowable that does not
mean we know it simply means we accept
the unknowability
so the path of knowledge simply destroys
ignorance and takes you through negative
knowledge to agnosticism no positive
knowledge is gained on the path of
knowledge so we can redefine the path of
knowledge as
lifestyle where the knowledge is shed
nobody will agree with this but this is
how it is ignorance is a very big
impurity and knowledge is also an
impurity since you cannot start
shedding the knowledge you don't have
any knowledge obviously
so we start by shedding or cutting off
the ignorance that is the first step and
once you start knowing things then the
guru will point out like look this is
all positive knowledge you need to throw
it away also and we come from a state of
ignorance total darkness to a state of
knowing and then the final step you need
to take is the step of unknowing
drop the knowledge
drop anything that is positive and this
unknowing diagnostic position is of
being
not of knowing
be that which you are
so you will find that about 90 percent
of the people are trapped in ignorance
they know something but it is wrong it's
totally wrong and
let us say
9.9 percent people are trapped in
knowledge they know something yes it is
true it is kind of not true i mean it is
right it is useful and it is positive
they are very confident that i know and
they are trapped in that knowledge the
rest of the 0.1 percent they know that i
don't know and they are free they are
what they are they are established in
their own being
now i just cooked up the numbers here
percentages just to show you what is the
extent of ignorance
and humanity most of them are either
trapped in ignorance or knowledge which
they consider as a good state
no the good state to be in is of not
knowing of simply being
it is very difficult for an intelligent
person to accept this so the intellect
becomes their obstacle you need to
surrender the intellect in the final
step of the path of knowledge
do not surrender it in in the beginning
that will be a very bad decision you
want to cross the river so what do you
do you take a boat a small boat let us
say
when you cross the river you are on the
other side
don't carry the boat drop it
purpose is done this is a purpose is
served leave the boat however if you
drop the board when you're just starting
you're in the middle of the river you
say i don't need the boat then you know
what will happen you will never be able
to cross the river that is foolish and
when you carry the boat with you when
you are on the other side it's useless
that is foolish so our enquiry our
knowledge our means of knowledge our
criteria for truth and all the logic and
rationality that we employ in
spirituality is of no use in the end
so this journey is like this it is of
dropping it is of shedding cutting off
letting go subtracting
path of knowledge is a negative path
where you lose you do not gain anything
so that was a short introduction to
positive knowledge and negative
knowledge the progress is made by
negative knowledge
initially it has to be positive
knowledge it needs to be both initially
so that you cross the ignorance the
phase of ignorance when you're full of
knowledge you drop it also we don't know
anything it is not a bad thing it is a
good thing because there is nothing to
know whatever will be known will be
simply a circus of the intellect the
intellect is the clown here you are the
ring master you are the showman and you
are the audience also you are everything
you are the whole and complete
you don't need to know anything there's
nothing to know there there's nothing to
know in me and there is nothing to know
outside me
here comes the peace here comes the
bliss here comes the silence there is
nothing more satisfactory than this you
can try it
okay so next question also from parthip
tomato once eaten becomes memory can it
be deduced stand alone from the above
statement that the tomato was already a
memory i can deduce one thing only from
this statement there was no tomato can
you see it if you don't eat it it is
still going to rot and disappear if you
eat it it will just go through the one
more step of becoming something in the
body
becomes part of the body and then again
it simply given in out in the
environment the body also drops rods so
there is no tomato and it simply appears
for a while then it rots away this
illusion there is no tomato if it is
eaten it appears as a body rots away it
was an illusion that is all can be
deduced
you can say okay the tomato was
in the memory that is why it appeared
that is a theory that is an assumption
you can call it a scientific theory you
can analyze it at all these levels you
can say there was a potential of
there being a tomato it appears in
various forms you know whatever happens
in between to the tomato is
not of any consequence
and when it disappears you know it is it
is again a potential there the potential
is for the experience to appear it seems
as as if it is appearing like this and
because you are used to this thing
you're used to this experience you call
it perfectly logical and true any
ordinary person will ask
what is wrong the tomato is rot what is
wrong tomato is eaten and what is wrong
the tomato appears on it plant tomato
plant why are you asking these questions
they are so habitual of this appearance
and disappearance that the ignorant
person thinks that is how it should be
that is how the truth is they are not
surprised by this that the tomato has
disappeared it has gone through many
stages probably who cares it was a tiny
bud flower then it became a green ball
then it became
ripe fruit
red tomato then it is sitting on your
dining table and you're cutting it and
eating you know who cares what happens
to it who cares how it is changing if it
is changing it is not there that is all
can be deduced
how you will say how it is there it is
there just speed up the time just speed
up the time and you will see that if it
starts disappearing in one second you
are going to doubt yourself no no there
is no tomato
if the one who eats the tomato also
disappears in one second is there
anything simply because it is eaten and
then you know it has changed in a
different way it has taken its journey
from a different route to disappearance
does not mean it became true that is not
logical to think like this
let us take an example that
you are dreaming and
you have
a very good
meal in front of you very good food your
favorite food now you wake up from the
dream and you say okay there was a dream
very nice dream but the food was not
real it just up it just appeared next
day you dream and the same dream but
this time you eat it it's very tasty
mouth watering you wake up and you say
that oh the food was real i could eat it
so it was real but is this the right
statement is it the right deduction
no
the food was unreal the one who ate it
unreal all the taste and all the
satisfaction or dissatisfaction or
whatever you got from it totally unreal
simply because a different event
happened with the food does not make it
real
actually ordinary people have a lot of
difficulty understanding this simple
thing they will argue like this okay
food is not real don't eat it then don't
eat it you will know it is real what
kind of logic is that
look at this dream
example
the argument is not that it is unreal
because because nobody can eat it your
hand passes through the food now it is
totally unreal it's a hallucination and
the argument is that it changes it is a
changing experience that is why it is
unreal it does not matter what what path
it takes to change it is unreal this is
the argument and obviously the people
who are not trained on the path of
knowledge will never understand this
thing
and i am sometimes surprised that they
do understand when i tell them this look
the tomato is not real and they are
dumbfounded i mean they're surprised
really is it
then i then you know you draw their
attention to the body look it is also
changing even though it is eating things
it is changing and it is changing
precisely because it is eating if it
stops eating no problem you know it will
change anyway it will change quickly to
dirt because it eats it stays for a
while because the illusion stays for a
while you assume it is real it is not
you can go to the plato's example you
know when there were no movies and all
he came up with this shadow theater kind
of concept plato he said you tie people
in a cave and they show them only the
shadows on the wall of the cave dungeon
let us say and if they're born in the
cave when they die in the cave they will
always think that the shadows are the
reality their only reality will be
shadows on the wall the shadow puppet
show they will they are not going to
doubt it even for a second you can think
about it you can do this experiment in
your mind mental experiment find out
are you not witnessing the shadows right
now are your senses not creating
everything from nothing at all
some people will say that means the
senses are true that means my brain is
true just take a step back step back
when you know one or two steps look at
the senses in the brain and the body and
nervous system and the
software and whatever you call it you
know non-physical that is also changing
that is also an illusion
you will reach that which is not
changing it is guaranteed you will reach
the screen which is not changing the
space in which the changes are happening
seem to happen and that is you you are
not changing you that is why you are the
only
truth but saying i concluded from this
the waking state is a dream very good
even without bringing in the concept of
memory or the vibration or anything any
other science of any kind you can
demonstrate that it is a dream you can
do that
okay sunday is saying
which means
when we are sure it is all false but
when there is a doubt then there is a
potential to know and when we know what
we know becomes false very good yes if
you ever think that probably something
is true out there which can be known you
see these two things they should occur
together known and true if you think
there is something like this you
investigate who knows you will find it
but usually we never find it it is an
experience of some kind which is
changing
always and then it is false
what do we conclude it is not that which
appears maya it is not that
whenever there is this word no it is not
this is now how it is this is not what
it seems to be that means it is negative
knowledge
that means the belief was dropped
so that is the way we proceed
drop everything that we have assumed
then it takes you to the being level
which is
just being there's no need to know
there's no compulsion no anxiety to know
anything because you have investigated
everything and you found that everything
comes out to be negative the conclusions
are negative now you may play with it
for a while that you know i have a doubt
that this is the thing which is
sounds interesting is positive
investigate then again it comes out to
be negative
so
it can be a play to find out and this
should not be done prematurely like you
get on the path of knowledge and say
okay i drop everything there's nothing
to know and that means your boat is
sinking
you need to go through the forest of
knowledge then emerge out in the clear
area create clear ground of not knowing
before that you have gone through the
forest of ignorance
it is very easy to drop the ignorance
because it is causing suffering it is
difficult to drop the knowledge because
it gives us confidence it gives us
material benefits it gives us
satisfaction and happiness and the
intellectual people love it it is
difficult but there is no hurry you will
drop it
if you have a guru the guru ensures that
you don't delude yourself with knowing
if you don't have a guru it can take
time because this knowledge eventually
turns into ignorance it eventually turns
into suffering
ignorance is suffering knowledge is
suffering
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